The Disappearing Recovery

monicasilver said:

They post 14K messages to Freeones? :rofl2: :2 cents:

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Or 1K since '09...:tongue: Meh...there are plenty of 14k'ers...I'm striking to catch the guy who I just saw being congratulated for 25K...

Re: Those who 'can't' do and the academics....F.Y.I..most experienced practitioners of anything will tell you almost one for one...what the academic teaches and what presents itself in practical application are quite often, different things.:2 cents:

But at the rate I correct the facts, numbers and figuring of biased, lazy theorists and politicos here then go 'round and 'round with people who act allergic to a fact ...I'm sure I'll reached the 25K mark in no time...(And that's not even counting those who draw up utterly senseless scenarios of past events that don't even make sense to the most seasoned psychotherapist...:o).

Translation: I couldn't have done it without you...:clap::crying:

:sing:I wonder why it is,
I don't argue like this,
With anyone but you,
I wonder why it is,
I wont let my guard down,
For anyone but you
We do it all the time,
Blowing out my mind,:sing:...:lovecoupl

Couple of points.

The slowdown of the recovery was predicted by many economists which is turning out to be correct. Here is one among them published back in February.

Spending cuts approved by House Republicans would act as a drag on the U.S. economy, according to a Wall Street analysis that put new pressure on the political debate in Washington.

The report by the investment firm Goldman Sachs said the cuts would reduce the growth in gross domestic product by up to 2 percentage points this year, essentially cutting in half the nation's projected economic growth for 2011.

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http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/23/nation/la-na-gop-cuts-20110224

Also, its demand that is holding back the overall recovery and not policy doubts.

A new survey of economists by The Wall Street Journal contradicts that, however. It's actually not government policies giving business managers the jitters but relatively low consumer demand, most of the economists said.


An excerpt from a piece by Phil Izzo:
The main reason U.S. companies are reluctant to step up hiring is scant demand, rather than uncertainty over government policies, according to a majority of economists in a new Wall Street Journal survey.

"There is no demand," said Paul Ashworth of Capital Economics. "Businesses aren't confident enough, and the longer this goes on the harder it is to convince them that they should be."

In the survey, conducted July 8-13 and released Monday, 53 economists—not all of whom answer every question—were asked the main reason employers aren't hiring more readily. Of the 51 who responded to the question, 31 cited lack of demand (65%) and 14 (27%) cited uncertainty about government policy. The others said hiring overseas was more appealing.

Some executives echoed the survey's central finding.

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http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...-due-to-low-consumer-demand-not-policy-doubts

As an inhabitant of one of those mentioned 'European Welfare States', I see large parts of the problem both here and in other countries in the systematic destruction of the middle class and the low-income groups.

Especially the latter, as a new study shows, have lost 22% of their income since the year 2 K and it is obvious, for people who had to manage getting along on low income, that is brutal.

Germany relies heavily on export income, but this is mainly due to coming down harder and harder on the people who do the actual work. And of course, the insane trend of outsourcing jobs, and giving the jobs to cheaper workers across the border.

So if anybody works for less money, where does the money come from with which we are supposed to buy all that stuff?

Far too many countries go and try that road, and now all of them have to face the consequences of this shortsighted strategy.

Gold prices soar, the superrich go for saving what they have scratched together by investing in farmland, natural goods etc, and push on the crash, as now food prices will have to raise.

And the Republicans go and block strategies that could maybe help, as one of them said, along these lines 'Obama wants us to do things that make him look better in 2012'

The Democrats are pretty corrupted, too, but I think there is not a single Republican in the House or Senate that is not completely in the pocket of the Big Money Lobbyists.

Trident1 said:

Great article. The Democratic policies are to blame.

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Right.

Then please explain to me how the Republican plan to cut more then 700,000 jobs will help the economy as well as getting [people back to work.

In fact, the reason the economy isn't recovering is that NONE of the major businesses/corporations are hiring AT ALL, but merely investing the profits. This may be fabulous for the execs and CEO's and shareholders, but for the more then 15,000,000 unemployed in the country it doesn't do shit.

So quit lying about how 'tis the fault of those Dumbocrats and their Smellfare Program butllshit.'

fathomite said:

Right.

Then please explain to me how the Republican plan to cut more then 700,000 jobs will help the economy as well as getting [people back to work.

In fact, the reason the economy isn't recovering is that NONE of the major businesses/corporations are hiring AT ALL, but merely investing the profits. This may be fabulous for the execs and CEO's and shareholders, but for the more then 15,000,000 unemployed in the country it doesn't do shit.

So quit lying about how 'tis the fault of those Dumbocrats and their Smellfare Program butllshit.'

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All of those government jobs take money from other people... taxpayers PAY their salaries and benefits, and in most cases it's better pay and benefits than the people they are "serving."

These jobs do not "create" any wealth. I wonder why lefties can't grasp this very simple concept.

fathomite said:

So quit lying about how 'tis the fault of those Dumbocrats and their Smellfare Program butllshit.'

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Oi vey! Calgon take me away!

CunningStunts said:

I wonder why lefties can't grasp this very simple concept.

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Because they aren't old enough yet.

CunningStunts said:

All of those government jobs take money from other people... taxpayers PAY their salaries and benefits, and in most cases it's better pay and benefits than the people they are "serving."

These jobs do not "create" any wealth. I wonder why lefties can't grasp this very simple concept.

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People serving in useful employment is always helpful. After all, they have to spend their money somewhere.

Aside from that...the notion that work for the g'ment doesn't create wealth is wildly naive.

There are an uncountable number of contractors who have made fortunes off of g'ment work.:2 cents: And there are an equal number of pvt. sector jobs you'll never get wealthy off of either...

The salary of virtually everyone who works is payed for by someone else. There is all kinds of money the g'ment spends on it's contractors...in that sense, what is the difference as long as the work is useful and not wrought with wastefulness..??

Trident1 said:

He taught Monetary Theory. He's also well versed on Socialist/Communist economies. Needless to say he knows that Obama's/Democrat/Keynesian vision is disaster.

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Economics is getting to the point where it's party pseudo-science. Almost nobody in the field can agree on what to do, and they miss so much it's almost laughable.

In any case our economic system, even when the theories end up mathematically correct, don't function to have the best benefit for the most people, never have, and it's getting worse as time goes on. It usually ends up as a system that ends up funneling ever more money into a fewer already wealthy hands and it hurts the poor among the people. So when the theories work, they are actually working to hurt most people. Sounds like something incredibly screwed up to me. Than again I go by what's right, what's best for everybody, and what works best for the lest among us and not some blind ideology that I worship as a virtual religion or something that's going to benefit me the most and to hell with everybody else and what happens to them.

Hot Mega said:

People serving in useful employment is always helpful. After all, they have to spend their money somewhere.

Aside from that...the notion that work for the g'ment doesn't create wealth is wildly naive.

There are an uncountable number of contractors who have made fortunes off of g'ment work.:2 cents: And there are an equal number of pvt. sector jobs you'll never get wealthy off of either...

The salary of virtually everyone who works is payed for by someone else. There is all kinds of money the g'ment spends on it's contractors...in that sense, what is the difference as long as the work is useful and not wrought with wastefulness..??

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SSsssssssssssssspiiiinnnnnnn Meg.

Gov't jobs do not create wealth.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/creating-jobs-vs-creating-wealth/

D-rock said:

In any case our economic system, even when the theories end up mathematically correct, don't function to have the best benefit for the most people, It usually ends up as a system that ends up funneling ever more money into a fewer already wealthy hands and it hurts the poor among the people. So when the theories work, they are actually working to hurt most people. I go by what's right, what's best for everybody, and what works best for the lest among us and not some blind ideology that I worship as a virtual religion or something that's going to benefit me the most and to hell with everybody else and what happens to them.

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So you want socialism. So let's divide the pie into smaller and smaller slices until everyone get's a crumb. In the end everyone get's nothing. That's not the answer.

Even in Communist societies there is a hierarchy where the handful have everything and the majority have little.

You want to remove the hierarchy......good luck it's human nature.

Trident1 said:

SSsssssssssssssspiiiinnnnnnn Meg.

Gov't jobs do not create wealth.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/creating-jobs-vs-creating-wealth/

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SSssssssssssssssssssssssspiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn 'dents 1.

I said gov't contracts do...not jobs.:Face-palm:

Trident1 said:

So you want socialism. So let's divide the pie into smaller and smaller slices until everyone get's a crumb. In the end everyone get's nothing. That's not the answer.

Even in Communist societies there is a hierarchy where the handful have everything and the majority have little.

You want to remove the hierarchy......good luck it's human nature.

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Socialism has been a part of American life for as long as America has been a country. Socialism has been surviving alongside capitalism. Since you don't like Socialism, don't use the post office, don't collect social security or Medicare, don't watch the NFL, don't go to a public university, public library or a public park.

Every successful country in the world operates under a combination of socialism and capitalism. When done properly, they support each other, giving people the best choices for quality and cost efficiency.

Hot Mega said:

I said gov't contracts do...not jobs.:Face-palm:

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You didn't say "Gov't contracts".





Btw, even Gov't contract work is no guarantee of wealth.

Icecold322 said:

Socialism has been a part of American life for as long as America has been a country. Socialism has been surviving alongside capitalism. Since you don't like Socialism, don't use the post office, don't collect social security or Medicare, don't watch the NFL, don't go to a public university, public library or a public park.

Every successful country in the world operates under a combination of socialism and capitalism. When done properly, they support each other, giving people the best choices for quality and cost efficiency.

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State run agencies are a fact of life in any gov't. They serve our needs when we needs them. However, their footprint is our everyday lives is small. There's a big difference between a public park/university and real world socialism

Socialism failed in this country.

http://frontierindia.scriptmania.com/FNV13PAGE4.htm

Trident1 said:

You didn't say "Gov't contracts".

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More double-speak gibberish...What I said

There are an uncountable number of contractors who have made fortunes off of g'ment work.

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Now, for the viewing audience can you tell the class what type of entity secures (g'ment or other) contracts?

(Psst...the answer is, 'Contractors')

Trident1 said:

Btw, even Gov't contract work is no guarantee of wealth.

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Never said it guaranteed anything.

:1orglaugh....Is it possible...EVER for you not to try and wordsmith, 3 card statement monty your way out of or tri wriggling someone else into what you want a conversation to be?????????????

Don't you understand how onto you people are with this nonsense???:o

Icecold322 said:

Jefferson also believed that the constitution should be rewritten every 19 years, which I kind of agree with.
http://news.illinois.edu/news/07/0212constitution.html

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And don't forget He fucked black chicks as well!! :nanner:

Icecold322 said:

If I were Obama, I'd use the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling

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So your answer to this mess and Obama's is just to print more money the U. S. doesn't have? Real economic recovery will begin when Obama goes.

Nester6 said:

So your answer to this mess and Obama's is just to print more money the U. S. doesn't have? Real economic recovery will begin when Obama goes.

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What does this even mean? How many times in the past has the debt ceiling been raised and what has that done to economic recoveries?

Just wait until I become president
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=465142

accountantNOT said:

What does this even mean? How many times in the past has the debt ceiling been raised and what has that done to economic recoveries?

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Oh, that's just crazy talk. I'm reading from Michele Bachmann's notes right now (the future President/Queen of the United States of America, by the way! :nanner and the only times we've ever had to raise the debt ceiling is when Demoncrats were President. That's right! It's a fact! Look it up if you don't believe me and Michele! We've never had to raise the debt ceiling when Republicans were in office. Republicans are good and pure and always wanting to do the right thing for Americans... always protecting our freedoms and our precious bodily fluids. They're next to God. Demoncrats work for Satan. They're bad people.

On the day that we run that low down Black Kenyan Muslim commie socialist Nazi out of office, things will instantly get better. The stock market will go up like 10,000 points and companies will start hiring people again. The unemployment rate will fall to probably 2%, maybe less, within a week of a good Republican getting in office. Things will get good again, man! The sun will come back out and the rain clouds will disappear... literally! Doncha think it's kinda curious how we've been having all kinds of weird weather since Otrauma got in office?! Til we get a good Evangelical Christian back in office, like George W. Bush was, we're going to be punished for our evil ways!

Thank goodness for the TEA Party for standing up to that commie! Theys is protecting our freedoms (as well as our precious bodily fluids!). And don't listen to all these Nervous Nelly Demoncrats about what a default will mean. It ain't gonna mean nothin'! Everything will be fine. In fact, I bet our credit rating will go up! See, everybody will realize that by not paying our bills, the good guys have things perfectly in control and ol' Commie Obamie is no longer in control. And like, that'll be good and stuff.

Rick Perry/Michele Bachmann in 2012!!!

Happy Days Are Here Again!!!! :nanner: